Episode 7: The Sugar-Free Debate: Why sugar free will never work

Episode 7: The Sugar-Free Debate: Why sugar free will never work

In episode seven of the 'Easy Feed Podcast', I explore the topic of a sugar-free diet, particularly for children. I firmly believe that a zero-sugar lifestyle is not sustainable nor advisable, especially for children.

I discuss my views on social media posts that advocating sugar-free lunch boxes for children and how I think they are further fuelling mum guilt and unhealthy behaviours around food. Completely forbidding sugar can result in children sneaking food and developing an unhealthy 'forbidden fruit' mentality.

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Links
https://nourishwithkarina.com/feedingbabies
https://nourishwithkarina.com/3-week-feeding-kids-reset

Highlights:

Introduction (00:00.878)
Parental Advocacy for Sugar-Free Lunchboxes (00:32.27)
The Impact of Sugar-Free Movement on Children's Health (02:53.23)
Sugar-Free Recipes and Misleading Marketing (05:14.766)
Sugar-Free Food Labeling and Its Impact on Children (07:40.174)
The Forbidden Fruit Mentality (10:04.238)
Healthy Eating and the Persistent Desire for Certain Foods (14:50.254)
Child-Snap Food Intake and Its Impact (17:11.47)
The Concept of Healthy Eating and Sugar Control (19:30.606)
Parental Choices in Children's Lunchboxes (21:58.158)
Child Nutrition and Eating Guidelines (24:20.334)
The Challenge of Teaching Children to Eat Healthy Foods (26:44.11)
Promoting Healthy Eating Habits in Children (29:06.318)
Sugar in Lunchboxes and School Age Children (31:22.99)

Show notes

READ TRANSCRIPT

Show Notes

While I'm a fan of reducing sugar intake in a kid's life, I emphasise the importance of balance and teaching children how “high sugar” foods fit into a healthy lifestyle.

I dive into the complexities of labelling food as 'sugar-free' and discuss how small changes can lead to significant improvements in the long run. Here's a quick recap of what was discussed:

The impact of sugar-free messaging on children's lunchboxes

The importance of teaching children about real-life eating and balance

Misleading marketing tactics and the hidden sources of sugar

The forbidden fruit mentality and its effects on cravings

Strategies for setting children up for healthy eating habits in the long run

Listen to this episode for an exciting discussion about sugar, children's diets, and finding a balance. Your choices today can influence your children's eating habits as adults - making a huge difference to their lifelong health!

Learn more about my membership program, head over to: https://nourishwithkarina.com/membership

Introduction (00:00.878)
You're listening to the Easy Feed Podcast, episode number seven, why sugar -free will never work, in my view anyway.

Hi there, I'm Karina Savage and with over 20 years experience feeding children, including my own, I've learnt all the secrets that busy mums need to get their children eating better and actually enjoying healthy foods. So a huge welcome to the Easy Feed Podcast.

Parental Advocacy for Sugar-Free Lunchboxes (00:32.27)
Welcome back, it's great to have you here. You know, I've been ranting about this a little lately. I have to apologize. Well, apologize, but not apologize because ever since I was scrolling through my social media one evening on the couch and I came across this ad for sugar -free lunch boxes. Put in your email now and get all these sugar -free lunch box ideas for your child and...

you know, get on the sugar -free bandwagon and you know, I just got so angry. It just triggered something in me for some reason. I hadn't expected it, but you know, you think as a pediatric dietician, you'd be like, yeah, I'm on board. Like, let's do this. Sugar -free is great, but it actually had the reverse effect on me. It really triggered some anger inside of me because I just think it's unfair to be

almost subconsciously sort of putting these messages out that that's what we should be striving for. So after I read that post, I think it was probably the next day, I was taking my little pooch for a walk and I was like, stuff this, I've got to actually, I'm going to put some posts up about this. So I did a little reel and I got some really good responses. Everyone was like, yeah, I agree with you. This is awesome. Like great content. And then I did another post and

You know, I think it really resonated with people because I don't think it's an achievable, realistic goal to have completely sugar -free lunch boxes because it's not teaching our kids what real life is. It's not setting them up for success long -term because goodness knows when they're teenagers, they're going to be thrown into the world to fend for themselves, you know, when they're out and about in the day, eating, buying what they want from the shop. So we really need to be.

setting our children up for success, not trying to stop them eating a teaspoon of sugar, right? So I do feel quite passionately about it. And, and I've realised that I feel very passionate about it since seeing this post the other day, but I really do hate the fact that parents are made to feel like they have to produce a completely sugar -free lunchbox. Well, I mean, it depends on whether you take that on board or not, but I think...

The Impact of Sugar-Free Movement on Children's Health (02:53.23)
even subconsciously just seeing those messages, that messaging and those posts, you kind of just like tuck it away somewhere in your brain and it potentially can make us feel more guilty then when we're packing our kids to lunch boxes when it does have tiny teddies or Oreos or lollies or whatever, whatever else is in the lunchboxes that they want. So I think without realizing sometimes it can make us feel guilty and, and you know, look, the sugar -free movement.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of low sugar and reducing sugar in our child's day, but it's not no sugar, right? I mean, no sugar has an incredibly large following. And you know, I'm sure the company at the end of the day has, it comes from a place of good heart. Like, you know, it's just wanting to improve the health and wellbeing of our community, but, and our kids. And, and I do too, of course, but I just think.

No sugar is the wrong message. I think it needs to be low sugar or teaching our children how these sometimes foods that are high sugar foods, how they fit into a healthy balanced lifestyle. Hate the word diet, try not to ever use the word diet on this podcast because I don't like the word diet. But you know, that's how I think we should be messaging.

to other moms, to kids. I think that that's the message that should be out there. Not no sugar. It should be low sugar and trying to manage it because goodness knows, kids are going to want it anyway. Seriously. Like, you know, I think, you know, you've got up until about the age of maybe, maybe six, if you're lucky, until kids get to school and they see what's in other children's lunch boxes and they start coming home. And maybe I got a little bit older if I'm lucky, but...

You know, they start seeing what other kids are eating and if their lunchbox is completely, you know, healthy, balanced, not one ounce of sugar in it. And yet their little mate, they're sitting next to them at morning tea, smashing packets of tiny teddies and chocolate chip puffins from the supermarket. Then of course they're going to come home and start saying, mommy, I want some of those foods too. And that's where it gets tricky. And I think that's where you've really got to try and teach your kids how.

Sugar-Free Recipes and Misleading Marketing (05:14.766)
to have a balance. So that's, that's what I'm all about. And that's why I wanted to dedicate an entire podcast to this topic, because I think it's really important. And I think it's really important that we set our kids up for success. You know, two days ago, curiosity got me. I'm like, you know, I just need to, I just need to see what these recipes are. So of course it pops up on my newsfeed again, and I clicked on the link, popped in my email.

And I got this download of these sugar -free recipes and you know what? They weren't even sugar -free. I'm like, my gosh, are you kidding me? Can you believe it? They were not even sugar -free. I mean, some of them were like savoury recipes, like, you know, eggy, frittata -y things, but the ones that were more like muffin -y, cookie -based, they had rice malt syrup in them. So they were containing sugar, just not sugar.

The word sugar, rice malt syrup is a sugar. It's just a different type of sugar. So that just made me a little more frustrated because it's misleading. So not only is it setting us up for in effect failure when our kids do have sugar in the lunchbox, we feel, we should be aiming for sugar free. But their recipes contain sugar anyway. So it made me even more frustrated. But anyway, I'm over it now.

But look, it goes on all the time. Companies, companies, especially trying to fool people into thinking that things are sugar free. It's all in the marketing or no added sugar. And look, this is a big one. Recently I was interviewed, it was actually on Channel 7, it was a national television for this reason, because Australian toddler foods do not meet international recommendations or standards, I should say.

international food standards for sugar and salt. And in Australia, we, for whatever reason, allow food companies to put in concentrated sources of fruit purees, which are really just basically sugar. Like there's no real fibre or not much in the way of nutrition left. It's like concentrated fruit sugar, but they are allowed to concentrate these fruit sugars and add these into our children's

Sugar-Free Food Labeling and Its Impact on Children (07:40.174)
foods and still put no added sugar on the label, which is completely misleading. And it's basically just driving sugar cravings in our children. So that's really frustrating as well. But you know, if we quickly list some ingredients that you will find in food products that are actually sugar, but don't say the word sugar, we've got ingredients such as

fructose, sucrose, high fructose corn syrup, corn syrup, rice syrup, rice malt syrup, agave nectar, brown sugar, golden syrup, honey, glucose syrup, molasses, and the list goes on. Seriously, it does. There's so many sources of sugar that aren't necessarily written as sugar. You've got coconut sugar, you've got all sorts and ...

Just be careful because if you're following a recipe that says it's sugar -free, just make sure it doesn't have any of those ingredients in it because if it does, it's not sugar -free. But look at the end of the day, as you know, or as you will soon know, I'm for a bit of sugar because it means that our kids still eat healthily and they're not sneaking, sneaking food behind our backs and they're learning how to have, you know,

Sometimes foods, a bit of sugar is part of a healthy balanced lifestyle. I'm trying hard not to say that word diet. So anyway, back to my sugar -free lunch boxes. Let's just focus on a bit of sugar with more of the healthy stuff, but let's not think that we need to be aiming for sugar -free. I think the biggest reason why completely forbidding something never works is because it just messes with our brain.

And this goes for everything in life, not just food. I mean, if I was told I could never eat chocolate again, then what would I go and eat? I'd probably go straight to the cupboard and smash some chocolate. Or if I was told I could never go to the beach again. And of course I, you know, the desire and impulse to run down to the beach would be huge because as soon as you deny or deprive a human being of something,

The Forbidden Fruit Mentality (10:04.238)
It becomes incredibly desirable. It's just that human nature. It's, it's the, it's what's called the forbidden fruit mentality. And the term forbidden fruit originally came from the Bible. It's the name given to the fruit that was growing in the garden of Eden, which according to the Bible, God commands mankind not to eat. So Adam and Eve were not allowed to eat this.

fruit that was growing on this particular tree, the tree of knowledge, and they couldn't help themselves. And so they took a bite, I think it was from an apple, from this fruit, from this tree. And of course they were then got in a lot of trouble and were exiled from the Garden of Eden. But that's where I think the terminology, the forbidden fruit came from. But I really like a quote that I recently found from a lady called Madeleine Ryan.

And it goes like this, people are obsessed with what they don't allow themselves to have, and then they become controlled by it. Forbidden fruit is everyone's main meal. And I think that that's really important to remember. And I've certainly seen this in many situations, many stories of children, which I have, have heard, and I'll tell you one of my own personal stories in a moment, but...

There was certainly, I remember, I think he was about year one and it was this little boy whose mother was really super strict and she wouldn't let him have any treats, any muffins, any anything that contained scarab sugar in his lunchbox. But it was this little boy that sadly was stealing money from other children so that he could run to the school canteen.

and buy himself a chocolate chip muffin. And it was this little boy that would always try to, you know, have other kids treats because he never got any of his own. And I think this is a really prime example of the forbidden fruit situation where it becomes so desirable and, and you actually lose all control when you get access to it. It's like the child that

The Importance of Mindfulness and Eating Control in Children (12:27.406)
gets to a birthday party and literally stands at the party table with all the cake and the chocolate and the biscuits and the lollies and just smashes them the whole party and is more interested in eating the food at the table than playing with their friends at the party because that food is so desirable and they just don't have the control. And that's potentially because they haven't been given the opportunity to develop.

the control and the mindset that these foods are always available to us really, you know, especially as you get older, but we choose when and how much we want them based on what our body is telling us. And it's about, and that's really the song that we want to be singing, especially to adults, you know, chocolate and chips. And as adults, we do have all this food available to us all the time. But if we truly listen to what our body wants and needs and

feels like, then we won't choose chocolate and chips all the time because it actually doesn't make us feel good when you're really in tune with your body and what your body wants and needs. So developing that mindfulness and the ability to listen to your body really closely and eat to what you need, we need to try to start planting those seeds for our little ones from an earlier age. And I'm not saying you go into that level of detail with a seven year old. Of course you don't, but...

forbidding something will really mess with their brain and it will make them much more less likely to be able to control themselves when they're given that food. And this will potentially stay with them into their teens and adulthood. And you don't want to set them up to develop these more dysfunctional eating behaviors. You want them to know that, yeah, there's chocolate and chips there, but you just don't need to have it all the time because it's not necessarily good for you and it doesn't make you feel good all the time. So.

It's trying to give them those messages. But look, this takes, you know, months and years of repetition to, and really, role modeling yourself for the kids to learn it. Of course they're going to want to eat chocolate and chips whenever they can. When they're young, because it tastes good and they haven't really learnt those healthy eating behaviours. It's our role as parents to teach our children how to eat healthy and...

Healthy Eating and the Persistent Desire for Certain Foods (14:50.254)
And what healthy eating, what a healthy lifestyle is, and that does include treat foods. It doesn't forbid them. Another well -known fact of human behaviour is if you take something away or make it scarce, it becomes a hundred more times desirable, even a thousand or a gazillion more times. Look, a perfect example of this is prime sports drinks or energy drinks that were recently released within the last 12 months into

our country and worldwide. And wow, wouldn't you like to copy their marketing plan? I tell you, every 10 year old child, especially boys in the country or worldwide, couldn't get enough of this pride. And it was just an incredible explosion of desire that was driven by scarcity. And so that, yes, is a brilliant marketing.

strategy and it certainly worked really well for a prime. So make something scarce, you know, not able to get it and you want it a million times more. So similar to the forbidden fruit mentality, but of course, any of those scenarios where you're deprived or forbidden, you want it more. So we need to teach our kids how they can have it, but we just...

want to choose not to have it all the time because it's not necessarily going to be good for their body to have it all the time. But look, I have my own personal experience with my son. I think he was about three when he, the little cheeky monkey took it upon himself to open the door. He dragged the IKEA little table over to the pantry, got up on the pan, on the table and reached up to.

where he could then reach the 300 gram block of Cadbury chocolate. So not your normal block, but the bigger one. And then he'd obviously proceeded to walk into his room and sit knees up behind his open bedroom door. So his door was open, but he was kind of like hiding behind his bedroom door. And he was like chowing his way through this chocolate bar.

Child-Snap Food Intake and Its Impact (17:11.47)
I actually will have to share the, I've got the photo of this bar somewhere, so I'll have to find it. It was probably what, good six years ago now. So, but I will have to try and dig this photo up. It's hilarious. It's this big 300 gram block of chocolate and it's literally got a U shape in it. Cause I reckon he got, he probably got about a third of it, about a hundred grams. So it's got all these little bite marks around the U shape of this chocolate bar. It's hilarious. So.

Cheeky little monkey got a good intake of chocolate that day. But look, I think, yeah, and kids are going to do that, right? And they are going to, you are going to find lolly wrappers. It's interesting actually, because I've never really found that with my daughter, but I still find it with my son sometimes. Although he recently went to the dentist and I think that will hopefully change now that he's had to have a filling. But yeah, look, it's...

It's child specific, I think different children are different. Some children are sneakier than others. And despite your best efforts as a parent to allow them treat foods, you are going to have some kids that do still sneak foods. And I think it's about being mindful of that. Not necessarily punishing them for it, but having the conversation that they don't need to sneak foods because these foods are available to them. They can have chocolate, they can have lollies, but...

They're just sometimes foods and they just need to fit in a healthy balance lifestyle or healthy balanced way of living. It's not that they can't have it. We just need to make them sometimes foods rather than everyday foods. Now I know some food experts have actually gone down the path of saying, look, just make it open slather. Let them eat a whole ...

packet of biscuits if they want to in a sitting or let them do it as often as they want. Because eventually when they can have it in unlimited amounts, it's not going to be desirable anymore. And they're just going to have them there in the pantry and they can come and, you know, come and go and eat them as they please. So I get that concept and I think it's, I think it's a good concept. I just haven't had the confidence to do it with my kids, but...

The Concept of Healthy Eating and Sugar Control (19:30.606)
I think it's certainly worth a try and I'd love to know if any of the listeners out there, if any of you have actually done that and succeeded with that, because I get the concept and I like the concept. It's just about being brave enough to follow through and do it. Right. It's just like taking your dogs for a walk and, and not having the lead on them, having the confidence that they won't run across the road and having the confidence that they'll come back to you. So yeah, absolutely something to...

consider something to sort of chew on, so to speak, pardon the pun, because it might work. And I certainly, we were at a friend's place, one of my daughter's friends, we had like a dinner with their family and in their fridge, they've got a bowl of chocolate. Actually, I think it was probably a couple of chocolate bars that they've broken up into individual squares. And these individual little chocolate squares sit in this big bowl. So it's like a...

big bowl of chocolate, individual squares, sitting in the bowl, sitting in the fridge at all times. And they can just come and go and have the chocolate as they please. And my kids are like, wow, that's cool. And again, I think because it's always there, it becomes less desirable. So it's really interesting to see how different families approach sugar, healthy eating and...

and what works and what doesn't work. But what I'm really big on is not completely forbidding sugar because I think then it backfires on us. And then I think our kids just want it even more. And then that it creates problems later on. So we really need to be mindful of doing that. But, you know, I wonder if we, if we made the treat foods as plentiful in supply as fruits and vegetables, whether...

Our kids would eat less of the treat foods and more of the fruit and veg. That would be amazing, wouldn't it? It would be really interesting to see. Really good experiment. We need some more studies on that. I'm sure the parents would be up for it. Well, I guess it depends on which group you were randomizing to, right? That would be a very interesting study. So anyway, let me know. I'd love to know if any of you have ever played with this and tried it because yeah, it makes sense in theory. You just had...

Parental Choices in Children's Lunchboxes (21:58.158)
going to have the confidence to do it. So my kids are now nine and 11 and for sure, if I don't put any treats in their lunchbox, then, you know, after a few days, I reckon I'd get a comment and say, you know, why don't, why don't I have any, any like nice stuff in my lunchbox or any treats or, you know, I probably would get a comment. So I just think it's totally fine to put, you know, a muesli bar or.

you know, a muffin that you've made or maybe from the shop if you haven't had time or a little like Lindt chocolate ball or today my kids have got a little bit of Mr. Beast chocolate, which we had to try. I tell you what, he's now moved into the chocolate world. So yeah, look, and this dark chocolate has four ingredients. Yes, it's first ingredient sugar, but there's not much else to it. And it's just a little bit. And I thought, you know what, again,

It's their little treat. So no big deal. It wouldn't even be five grams of sugar in the whole thing. So again, they've just got a little treat in there to make them feel like they're not missing out when they see their friends who have a lot more sugar in their lunchbox. And I think that's really important. So they don't feel like complete health freaks compared to their buddies. But I totally get why parents feel really torn because it's, it's hard to find that middle ground between, you know,

wanting your child to be really healthy and not have any sugar and then, you know, what the child wants, especially as they get older. As I said, I reckon you've got up until about the age of maybe seven, maybe eight, maybe nine, if you're lucky, but you know, kids will start to see what their peers are doing and they will start to push back. So it's about finding that middle ground. Look, most of us have been told we know what...

kids need to eat or should eat in terms of the dietary requirements and we get the five and two, you know, advertised to us. And, and I think that's all well and good. Of course, we know that we need to be giving our children more plant foods, more vegetables, less sugar. But I think there's a real disconnect between what is gold standard and recommended and where a lot of families are at.

Child Nutrition and Eating Guidelines (24:20.334)
And I think that disconnect creates a lot of worry and perhaps sometimes feelings like you're not feeding your kids well or frustrations that your children aren't eating as well as they should be. So I think that's something to be really mindful of. And I want you to know I, over my 21 years have literally reviewed, goodness knows how many thousands and thousands and thousands of black -

dietary intakes of children. And it's very normal for children to consume sugar in their diet. And it's very normal that, you know, a child under the age of 14 is not eating all the colours of the rainbow. And it's very normal that children are not meeting the Australian dietary guidelines for vegetables. It's quite hard when you look at it, when you actually look at what they should be getting, it's actually quite hard.

Now look, again, I'm not saying that we shouldn't be aiming for this because great, yeah, if we can get this into our children, like wonderful, you know, plant foods are so important for gut health. They're so important for our immune health and our, you know, our general health, but at the same time, it needs to be a bit of a balance with kids because they're not just going to want carrots and cucumber and cherry tomatoes in their lunchbox. They're going to want a bit of sweetness or...

Kids are savoury and they're happy with chips, but they're going to want a bit of, you know, those other treat foods as well. In my view, kids should not be labelled as fussy eaters if they're not eating heaps of vegetables every day. In my view, they're probably pretty normal kids who are still learning to like foods. And again, this, we're kind of going off topic here. This can be a whole other podcast, but yeah, I just think that we need to try to feel less guilty about how our children eat.

But I'm here to try to give you a bit of guidance in terms of how we go about feeding our kids because sure, we're told that they need vegetables every day. Sure, we're told that they need healthy protein and low sugar, but how we actually get them to eat these good foods and how we feed them, I don't think we're taught that. And look, I guess it's like, you know, trying to get your baby to sleep. When, when the baby comes out of you, there is no rule book.

The Challenge of Teaching Children to Eat Healthy Foods (26:44.11)
Sure, you can go and buy some books, but it's about how we get them to do these things. That's, I think, the real challenge for parents. And even though we know what our children should eat, it's about how we get them to eat these foods and how we set them up to have healthy eating behaviours and how we set them up to be mindful leaders and have a healthy relationship with food and how we get them to understand that these sometimes foods...

fit, you know, with everyday foods. It's the how I think that a lot of parents struggle with. And I get that. And that's totally understandable because I don't think we were ever taught the how, we've just been told the what. And that's why I've created the Nourishing Kids membership because I'm helping parents work on the how. How do we do this? How do we set up an effective feeding plan for our family that means our kids are getting more nutritious foods, that mean our kids are...

Developing a healthy relationship with food, it means our kids are getting what they need to thrive, but without the stress and the bribing and the pressure and everything that comes with that more stressful, chaotic dinner time. So my membership is designed to help mums set up an effective feeding plan that teaches them the how, not just the what. Cause we know the what, we just need to work out how to make it happen. So.

That's what I'm here to do. And I think that we need to remember that we just start small. Small changes over the days, weeks, months make a huge difference. Little changes, little habits. You see it making, when we talk about habit development, little habit changes over the days and the weeks and months make a big difference in the long run. And food is no different. They're like also putting money into a bank account, little bit of money deposited in every week.

You know, it makes a big difference in the long run. So same with food and dietary changes. If you can just change one thing about your child's day to improve their nutrition, that will make a big difference over the days and the weeks and the months. So often I think we feel like there's so many things that we would like to change about the way our children eat. It seems too overwhelming, but if you just start with one thing, and this is what I talk to my mums about in my membership, just start with one thing.

Promoting Healthy Eating Habits in Children (29:06.318)
and make that one change, then you will gain momentum. And then that one little change will then lead to another little change. And, you know, basically you're just gaining momentum and effectively also you're planting all these little seeds that will grow and stretch your child's variety of plant foods and reduce their intake of sugar. So.

That's our goal is just to make little changes that then become, you know, bigger changes in the long run. And again, we're really trying to set our kids up for success and health in the long run, because we know that children's eating habits directly relate to their eating habits as an adult. And if we can set our children up with healthy eating habits or support them to develop healthy eating habits by the time they're teens,

then they are going to carry those eating habits and also those taste preferences into adulthood. So really we're setting them up to become healthier adults with that means less risk of, you know, chronic diseases and adults. So really we're really planting a lot of important seeds as parents with our, you know, six year olds now that make a big difference, you know, in the long run. When we're not even here, when, you know, when they're adults, they'll be...

Hopefully thanking us for it. Okay. I'll start wrapping things up now, but I really wanted to dedicate a whole episode to sugar and why we should be aiming for lower sugar, not no sugar. And look, this will polarise people. There'll be some people that listen to it to me and go, no, don't agree with it. And that's totally fine. If you want to do completely no sugar and you can do that with your child, then...

Then great, but I will just warn you that you just need to make sure that they don't start to develop sort of that forbidden fruit mentality and don't start to sneak food. So, you know, absolutely, you know, once when they're one, two, three, even four, if you can get through those really early years with completely no sugar, a hundred percent agree with that. Like, you know, it's...

Sugar in Lunchboxes and School Age Children (31:22.99)
Absolutely fine, but the lunchboxes and when they're getting old enough to push back and look at what their friends are having and develop an understanding about different foods, that's when I think we need to include a bit of sugar to teach them how it's into a healthy balanced lifestyle. But absolutely in those really early years, I totally agree with no sugar. That's not what I'm debating here. It's the lunchboxes.

And school -aged children, that's where I think we can get into really tricky territory and create that forbidden fruit mentality. But if you can keep, you know, sugar -free until the age, to school age, then amazing. But just be really mindful about the impact of being too strict because I've seen it time and time again that it really can backfire. So, so there you go. That's my thoughts on sugar and what we should be aiming for with our

young children and our school age children and as I said I think there's a real difference there but yes I think you know now that I'm okay with putting a little sugar in our lunch box as long as the rest of it's you know still got some colour in it. Anyway I'll wrap things up now if you like what you hear please make sure you subscribe to this podcast and once you've listened to a few if you really receive some value then please do leave me a review so that it helps get this podcast out to other mums.

Bye for now.